Presidential Debate #3
Presidential Debate #3
Date: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:32 PM
JOB DESTRUCTION NEWSLETTER
October 14, 2004 - No. 1110
The following text was excerpted from transcripts of the 3rd debate
between Bush and Kerry and a discussion before the debates on the CNN
Lou Dobbs show. I focused on their positions on outsourcing and guest
worker visas.
Bush on Outsourcing -- Bush thinks Americans should go to community
college to upgrade their skills. He thinks that once Americans gain
skills from community college companies won't have a reason to exploit
cheap labor overseas.
Kerry on Outsourcing -- Kerry wants to tweak the tax code to get a
"fair trade playing field". He didn't explain why companies would be
discouraged from outsourcing if tax breaks are removed from companies
that don't pay taxes. Considering that companies save 10-to-1 on
salaries by moving offshore I cannot see why companies would care about
Kerry's band-aid approach.
Bush on guest worker visas -- Bush will give aliens a temporary worker
card that matches any willing employer with any willing employee. He
repeated previous opinions that there were jobs that Americans weren't
willing to do - like the ones that pay $5.15 an hour. Perhaps $5.15 an
hour will become the accepted pay scale for the foreign programmers and
engineers that will use Bush's work card. Then he will say that
Americans don't want programming and engineering jobs.
Kerry on guest worker visas -- Kerry wants a guest-worker program but
didn't elaborate.
CONCLUSION: The debate didn't provide many clues about how their
guest-worker programs differ, but there was a discussion on Lou Dobbs
last night that sheds some light on this question. Neither of them has
much of a clue what to do about outsourcing but Kerry at least
acknowledges that some of the fault lies with government policies -
Bush puts all the blame on poorly trained and educated Americans.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/13/ldt.01.html
DOBBS: And in so doing, Roger Simon, I just moments ago talking with
Tim Adams of the Bush/Cheney campaign, with Sara Bianchi from the
Kerry/Edwards campaign. I asked them about 2 issues: immigration and
trade, and I have to tell you folks, and I'd like you to help me here,
I couldn't find a scintilla of difference in their candidates, frankly
on those two issues. Roger, elucidate?
SIMON: You're probably not going to hear it from the candidates, if you
didn't hear it from their issues people, because that's where those
positions come from. We have heard in the primary debates, John Kerry's
position on immigration, and I'm sure you'll hear it tonight, since
we're in Arizona. I don't see how they can avoid this issue any longer.
And it's pretty close to George Bush's. They both believe in amnesty
programs that they don't call amnesty programs.
BROWNSTEIN: I don't agree, Lou. I don't agree. I think there's
differences on immigration and trade. We can go through this argument,
but essentially on immigration, there is one very important difference.
They both believe that a key to reducing -- to dealing with the problem
is establishing a guest worker program to allow people to come over the
border legally rather than illegally.
The big difference though, and I think this is an important difference
for voters, some may like it, a lot of it may not, is that John Kerry
wants a much bigger funnel for people who are here illegally to
eventually become U.S. citizens. The president doesn't really provide
for much of that for all, John Kerry does
Outsourcing
http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004d.html
SCHIEFFER: Let's go to a new question, Mr. President. Two minutes. And
let's continue on jobs.
You know, there are all kind of statistics out there, but I want to
bring it down to an individual.
Mr. President, what do you say to someone in this country who has lost
his job to someone overseas who's being paid a fraction of what that
job paid here in the United States?
BUSH: I'd say, Bob, I've got policies to continue to grow our economy
and create the jobs of the 21st century. And here's some help for you
to go get an education. Here's some help for you to go to a community
college.
We've expanded trade adjustment assistance. We want to help pay for you
to gain the skills necessary to fill the jobs of the 21st century.
You know, there's a lot of talk about how to keep the economy growing.
We talk about fiscal matters. But perhaps the best way to keep jobs
here in America and to keep this economy growing is to make sure our
education system works.
I went to Washington to solve problems. And I saw a problem in the
public education system in America. They were just shuffling too many
kids through the system, year after year, grade after grade, without
learning the basics.
And so we said: Let's raise the standards. We're spending more money,
but let's raise the standards and measure early and solve problems now,
before it's too late.
No, education is how to help the person who's lost a job. Education is
how to make sure we've got a workforce that's productive and
competitive.
Got four more years, I've got more to do to continue to raise
standards, to continue to reward teachers and school districts that are
working, to emphasize math and science in the classrooms, to continue
to expand Pell Grants to make sure that people have an opportunity to
start their career with a college diploma.
And so the person you talked to, I say, here's some help, here's some
trade adjustment assistance money for you to go a community college in
your neighborhood, a community college which is providing the skills
necessary to fill the jobs of the 21st century. And that's what I would
say to that person.
SCHIEFFER: New question to you, Senator Kerry, two minutes. And it's
still on jobs. You know, many experts say that a president really
doesn't have much control over jobs. For example, if someone invents a
machine that does the work of five people, that's progress. That's not
the president's fault.
So I ask you, is it fair to blame the administration entirely for this
loss of jobs?
KERRY: I don't blame them entirely for it. I blame the president for
the things the president could do that has an impact on it.
Outsourcing is going to happen. I've acknowledged that in union halls
across the country. I've had shop stewards stand up and say, "Will you
promise me you're going to stop all this outsourcing? "And I've looked
them in the eye and I've said, "No, I can't do that. "
What I can promise you is that I will make the playing field as fair as
possible, that I will, for instance, make certain that with respect to
the tax system that you as a worker in America are not subsidizing the
loss of your job.
Today, if you're an American business, you actually get a benefit for
going overseas. You get to defer your taxes.
So if you're looking at a competitive world, you say to yourself, "Hey,
I do better overseas than I do here in America. "
That's not smart. I don't want American workers subsidizing the loss of
their own job. And when I'm president, we're going to shut that
loophole in a nanosecond and we're going to use that money to lower
corporate tax rates in America for all corporations, 5 percent. And
we're going to have a manufacturing jobs credit and a job hiring credit
so we actually help people be able to hire here.
The second thing that we can do is provide a fair trade playing field.
This president didn't stand up for Boeing when Airbus was violating
international rules and subsidies. He discovered Boeing during the
course of this campaign after I'd been talking about it for months.
The fact is that the president had an opportunity to stand up and take
on China for currency manipulation. There are companies that wanted to
petition the administration. They were told: Don't even bother; we're
not going to listen to it.
The fact is that there have been markets shut to us that we haven't
stood up and fought for. I'm going to fight for a fair trade playing
field for the American worker. And I will fight for the American worker
just as hard as I fight for my own job. That's what the American worker
wants. And if we do that, we can have an impact.
Plus, we need fiscal discipline. Restore fiscal discipline, we'll do a
lot better.
Guest-Worker Visas
SCHIEFFER: Let's go to a new question, Mr. President.
I got more e-mail this week on this question than any other question.
And it is about immigration.
I'm told that at least 8,000 people cross our borders illegally every
day. Some people believe this is a security issue, as you know. Some
believe it's an economic issue. Some see it as a human-rights issue.
How do you see it? And what do we need to do about it?
BUSH: I see it as a serious problem. I see it as a security issue, I
see it as an economic issue, and I see it as a human-rights issue.
We're increasing the border security of the United States. We've got
1,000 more Border Patrol agents on the southern border.
We're using new equipment. We're using unmanned vehicles to spot people
coming across.
And we'll continue to do so over the next four years. It's a subject
I'm very familiar with. After all, I was a border governor for a while.
Many people are coming to this country for economic reasons. They're
coming here to work. If you can make 50 cents in the heart of Mexico,
for example, or make $5 here in America, $5. 15, you're going to come
here if you're worth your salt, if you want to put food on the table
for your families. And that's what's happening.
And so in order to take pressure off the borders, in order to make the
borders more secure, I believe there ought to be a temporary worker
card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer to mate up, so
long as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up in
order to be able to fulfill the employers' needs.
That has the benefit of making sure our employers aren't breaking the
law as they try to fill their workforce needs. It makes sure that the
people coming across the border are humanely treated, that they're not
kept in the shadows of our society, that they're able to go back and
forth to see their families. See, the card, it'll have a period of time
attached to it.
It also means it takes pressure off the border. If somebody is coming
here to work with a card, it means they're not going to have to sneak
across the border. It means our border patrol will be more likely to be
able to focus on doing their job.
Now, it's very important for our citizens to also know that I don't
believe we ought to have amnesty. I don't think we ought to reward
illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become
a citizen. And we ought not to crowd these people ahead of them in
line.
If they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too.
And here is where my opponent and I differ. In September 2003, he
supported amnesty for illegal aliens.
SCHIEFFER: Time's up.
Senator?
KERRY: Let me just answer one part of the last question quickly, and
then I'll come to immigration.
The American middle-class family isn't making it right now, Bob. And
what the president said about the tax cuts has been wiped out by the
increase in health care, the increase in gasoline, the increase in
tuitions, the increase in prescription drugs.
The fact is, the take-home pay of a typical American family as a share
of national income is lower than it's been since 1929. And the
take-home pay of the richest . 1 percent of Americans is the highest
it's been since 1928.
Under President Bush, the middle class has seen their tax burden go up
and the wealthiest's tax burden has gone down. Now that's wrong.
Now, with respect to immigration reform, the president broke his
promise on immigration reform. He said he would reform it. Four years
later he is now promising another plan.
Here's what I'll do: Number one, the borders are more leaking today
than they were before 9/11. The fact is, we haven't done what we need
to do to toughen up our borders, and I will.
Secondly, we need a guest-worker program, but if it's all we have, it's
not going to solve the problem.
The second thing we need is to crack down on illegal hiring. It's
against the law in the United States to hire people illegally, and we
ought to be enforcing that law properly.
And thirdly, we need an earned-legalization program for people who have
been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their
taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward
full citizenship, out of the shadows. SCHIEFFER: Do you want to
respond, Mr. President?
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